(no subject)

[alexmegami]

Jen and I were briefly talking about whether or not the New Testament specifically addresses homosexuality, and I only remembered now. So, here are various translations of the passage I was thinking of (1 Corinthians 9-10):

Explicitly Mention Homosexuality:

NIV: 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

NASB: 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

NLV: 9 Do you not know that sinful men will have no place in the holy nation of God? Do not be fooled. A person who does sex sins, or who worships false gods, or who is not faithful in marriage, or men who act like women, or people who do sex sins with their own sex, will have no place in the holy nation of God. 10 Also those who steal, or those who always want to get more of everything, or who get drunk, or who say bad things about others, or take things that are not theirs, will have no place in the holy nation of God.

Don't Explicitly Mention Homosexuality, But Could Be Interpreted As Including It:

KJV: 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The Message: 9-10 Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.

DRB: 9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

RSE: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So: it may depend on your definition of "sexual perverts", or who "the effeminate" or "abusers of themselves with mankind" are, or what "sex sins" are... but Corinthians is definitely NT, and there's definitely an argument to be made that homosexuality is condemned, either directly or by association.

Comments

[alexmegami]

Heh. And, again, I'm not disagreeing - I know I'd be insanely happy if Christians as a whole gave up the whole idea of homosexuality = sin; it's just that, you know, it's NOT just the Old Testament and Leviticus and the homosexuality in there along with the pork and the shellfish and the incest and the sacrifice rules.

It's also in the NT, with Paul laying down the rules, even when most of the OT [at least, Leviticus] rules were done away with.

[firstfaerie.livejournal.com]

Hmm. May I suggest that it's a tricky thing to hope that "Christians as a whole" do ANYTHING - given that Christians as a whole don't see homosexuality as a sin to begin with. Some do, some don't. Ultimately, the NT is a collection of interpretations, expressions, and experiences based on early Christians. If a Christian is wondering how to act, it's supposed to come down to the most basic teachings of Christ.... which, of course, vary between the gospels, but comes down to "Hey, wouldn't it be great if everybody was nice to each other for a change".

And historically speaking, the OT is important to understand where Christianity came from, what sort of ideas it was growing out of. Now that I think of it, I don't think the Bible states "Do only as the Bible tells you", anyway ;)

*hugs* Less hate is a good idea all around, and we live in continually disappointing times for that, don't we...

[alexmegami]

*hugs back* Oh, I know it's a pipe dream. But it would be nice.

I know at least some Christian traditions believe in the infallibility of the Bible, making it the literal word-of-God, meaning that following it is really your only way to go, but it's not everyone.

And, the point of the conversation that this sprung from wasn't "don't believe in the Bible because X", or "the Bible absolutely condemns homosexuality" or anything... it was more a "it's not just the OT that references homosexuality, here's proof".

I mean, it's perfectly valid to say that it's Paul, not necessarily the big JC (and Paul was a wacky sort of guy), or that there are issues of translation (since Paul seems to have made up the word translated as "homosexual" here, at least according to religioustolerance.org), but not that the sentiment isn't there at all.