Hmmm...

[alexmegami]

Okay, someone else who knows D&D better than I needs to look over this for me, but thus far here's what I have:



Name: Fern Smoothbone
Race: Halfling
Class: Rogue 1/Bard 1/Cleric 2 (4HD)
Alignment: True Neutral (not even sure I can do this by 3.5 rules; may need to drop Bard :/)
Deity: Kelemvor (Fate, Law, Protection, Repose, Travel): Lawful Neutral

Size: Small
Speed: 20ft

-----

Stat	Originally	Modifier
STR 7	9 (-2, Halfling)	-2
DEX 11	9 (+2, Halfling)	0
CON 10	-	0
INT 13	-	+1
WIS 15	-	+2
CHA 14	13 (+1, lvl 4)	+2

BAB: +2 (+1 small, +1 cleric), +3 (thrown/slings)
Init: 0
AC: 11 (sans armor: 10 +1 (small))
HP: 22 (6, 6, 8, 2)

Fort: +4 (+3 classes, +1 halfling)
Reflex: +5 (+4 classes, +1 halfling)
Will: +6 (+5 classes, +1 halfling); +8 on fear (+2, halfling)

Melee Bonus: 0
Ranged Bonus: +2 or +3

----

x Appraise: 1 (+1, Int)
x Balance: 0
x Bluff: 2 (+2 Cha)
x Climb: 0 (-2 Str, +2 Halfling)
x Concentration: 0
x Craft (coffins): 0
x Decipher Script: 5 (4 ranks, +1 Int)
x Diplomacy: 6 (4 ranks, +2 Cha)
x Disable Device: 1 (+1 Int)
x Disguise: 2 (+2 Cha)
x Escape Artist: 0
x Forgery: 1 (+1 Int)
x Gather Info: 6 (4 ranks, +2 Cha)
x Heal: 2 (+2 Wis)
x Hide: 4 (+4 Halfling)
x Intimidate: 2 (+2 Cha)
x Jump: 0 (-2 Str, +2 Halfling)
x Knowledge (local): 1 (+1 Int)
x Knowledge (history): 6 (5 ranks, +1 Int)
x Knowledge (religion): 5 (4 ranks, +1 Int)
x Knowledge (arcana, planes): 1 (+1 Int)
x Listen: 6 (4 ranks, +2 Wis)
x Move Silently: 6 (4 ranks, +2 Halfling)
x Open Lock: 0
x Perform (singing): 5 (3 ranks, +2 Cha)
x Profession (mortician): 7 (5 ranks, +2 Wis)
x Search: 5 (4 ranks, +1 Int)
x Sense Motive: 6 (4 ranks, +2 Wis)
x Sleight of Hand: 0
x SPEAK LANGUAGE 1
x Spellcraft: 1 (+1 Int)
x Spot: 4 (2 ranks, +2 Wis)
x Swim: -2 (-2 Str)
x Tumble: 0
x Use Magic Device: 7 (5 ranks, +2 Cha)
x Use Rope: 0

-----

Feats:
-Extra Turning
-Improved Turning

-----

Special Abilities:

-turn undead 9x/day as though Level 3 Cleric
-sneak attack (+1d6 dmg)
-trapfinding
-Aura of Law
-bardic music

-countersong

-fascinate

-inspire courage (+1)
-bardic knowledge (+4 mod (1 lvl Bard, +1 Int, +2 Synergy (Knowledge: history))
-no spell failure risk for light armor

-----

Can use:

-all simple weapons
-hand crossbow
-rapier
-sap
-shortbow
-short sword
-longsword
-whip
-all armor
-all shields save tower shields

-----

BARDIC SPELLS:

-may cast 2 level 0 spells/day
-knows 4 level 0 spells:

-Message

-Read Magic

-Light

-Detect Magic

-----

CLERIC SPELLS:

Domains: Protection and Repose

-may cast:

-4 lvl 0 spells/day

-2+1 lvl 1 spells/day

Domain Spells:
-Deathwatch
-Sanctuary

-may use Protective Ward 1x/day
-may use Death Touch 1x/day

-----

Languages:

-Common
-Halfling
-Elven
-Celestial



-------------------------------------------------

How does that look to my better-knowing D&D friends? Should I go for the Wisdom +1 instead? Or buoy my Strength? Are there better feats I could be using?

Raaa, D&D is complicated. ;_;

Comments

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

With the alignment thing, you actually have a problem with the cleric levels rather than the bard levels. Bards can be any nonlawful alignment, but the cleric rules say, "A cleric cannot be neutral unless his deity's alignment is also neutral".

[alexmegami]

See, that's what I keep telling Patrick!

The problem is, if I want to advance this character without penalty, I have to drop the Bard level. I can retain the level of cool bard stuff even if I switch to Lawful, but if the rest of my character levels aren't Rogue, then I get XP/level backlash.

Maybe I can convince my ST to keep the 3.0 ruling of just one step away. I'm not sure why they changed it for 3.5.

Or I could just accept that Bard/Cleric for this god isn't going to work, and find a different one with the Repose domain (or find one with the Glory domain...).

[safti]

Agreement on the comment re: clerics, although having a chat with your DM might clear that up. It's not like you're trying to be a CE char with a CG deity, and you are within a step of your deity's alignment.

Unless you're absolutely sure your char would be that good at turning, you might want a more skill-oriented feat, or something that boosts your combat skills; your low strength will really cripple the damage you do [though as a cleric, that matters less; I tend to make characters who can theoretically survive stark naked with nothing better than a pointy stick to fend off enemies; I sometimes discount the fact that spellcasters rarely have so much of a problem].

I played a human char with a Str of 9, so I'm familiar with the pitfalls [Jamie, you remember her, right?]; the up side is that as a halfling, all your gear weighs less, but it might cause problems in the long run. *shrug* If you've got more than one other party member, it's prolly not worth the point to boost it. Wis [or Int, for Int checks and Bardic Knowledge] would be better, in my opinion.

[safti]

Read comment above; is THAT what they did with Clerics in 3.5?! Geez.

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

Yes, your gear weighs less as a halfling, but as a Small character you can also only carry 3/4 of what a Medium character with the same strength, IIRC.

Also, why are so many of your ability scores odd numbers? What ability score generation system did you use?

The feats seem to make sense given that you seem to want to have her quite focussed on death. You could look at the skill-oriented feats, depending on what you want her to focus on, or maybe Combat Expertise since neither your strength or your dex is very good.

3 classes also strikes me as potentially a little weak. I might change her to Rog 1/Clr 3, with alignment LN -- I don't believe you would incur a 20% XP penalty either that way or the way you have her, since rogue is her favoured class as a halfling. I'm not the most experienced D&D player ever, though.

[safti]

but as a Small character you can also only carry 3/4 of what a Medium character with the same strength

Yes, that's right. Argh. Been a long time sinc... wait, I've never played a Small char.

As for the XP - more to Alex, now - that I'm not sure about, our DM was more inclined to reward us for creativity as long as everything made sense, so I don't think I've ever incurred XP penalties. Another thing that might be best to check on.

[scapegoat-5.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna assume they just rolled dice and assigned values to whatever stats they wanted :P

About the XP penalty, if you're going strictly by the rules, IIRC, it's just if two nonfavoured classes are more than 1 level apart (prestige classes aren't counted in this). In this case, the Rogue is the favoured, so it's ignored. She would still be left with Bard 1, Cleric 2 so once she got to Cleric 3, she'd start getting an xp penalty.



As far as all of this, I'd agree and say Rog 1/Clr 3 is definitely the best way to go. Maybe look into a prestige class actually if anything that works with the dead catches your eye ;)

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Combat Expertise. You're a Small character with Str 7 -- you're going to be completely useless in melee. So, you might as well trade your attack bonus for increased AC, since as a cleric you need to avoid getting hit as much as possible.

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

On that note, I'd put the extra ability point into Wis or Int, not Str, since if you're using a combination of Combat Expertise and ranged weapons in combat, strength won't be of much use to you.

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

okay...I just realized the extra ability point is the one for 4th level, which you put into Cha. I think it works fine for any of the mental stats, but it's probably more useful for Wis than for Cha. I know your character is really focussed on the dead, so lots of turning undead ability is good, but I don't know how much of your campaign will be focussed on dealing with undead (which would affect whether a bonus to Wis or Cha is more useful). I think it'd be OK in any of the mental stats, though.

[nijikongirl.livejournal.com]

The only other thing I can see is that your class ability minimums might not be high enough.

Actually, I don't know much about 3.5, but in 2nd Ed, you have to have at least a dex of 12 and a charisma of 15 to play a bard.

[alexmegami]

You are quite right about that. As it is, putting her in studded leather takes up 90% of my carrying capacity for Medium. Put her in her clerical robes and she's into Medium already.

Rolling 4d6, drop the lowest, and roll 7 times, drop the lowest of those.

I got 8, 9, 9, 10, 13, 13, 15. :P

Now, to be fair, I didn't roll those in front of the DM; I just rolled up stats to figure out what I would want where (obviously, Strength isn't a priority, nor is Dex or Con). I might get better rolls later.

I think you're right about 3 classes not working; part of the problem is that since she really isn't a martial character, I want her to be a fairly skillful one. Now, I could just go Rogue 2/Cleric 2 (or, as you say, Rogue 1/Cleric 3 - there's no XP penalty, you're right) and get a similar effect, but bards get the advantage of many many knowledge skills.

Like I've said, we have a group that has 3 combat capable characters (a paladin, a monk and a swashbuckler, which is based on fighters), I'm trying to fill the skill/magic niche.

[(Anonymous)]

There aren't ability minimums any more, not as far as I've ever seen anyway. :) I think they dropped that for 3.0/3.5.

[alexmegami]

Ah, XP penalties are a system thing rather than a DM thing. If any two non-favored classes are more than 1 level away from each other, you start gaining XP penalties (something like 20% more needed to level).

Basically, I'd have to bring Bard to 2 before bringing Cleric to 3. Unfortunately, being unable to be a Lawful character as a bard, she'd have to drop to Neutral/Neutral - meaning she'd lose all her cleric abilities under her god until she atoned with atonement.

[alexmegami]

This is very true. I could easily trade out the Improved Turning for Combat Expertise or some other combat-related merit.

[alexmegami]

Yeah.

I think Min's right too - Rogue 1/Cleric 3 or Rogue 2/Cleric 2 is probably better in the long run.

[alexmegami]

This is a very good point. I'm not actually all that sure myself. And it's not like any of the feats require a higher Cha than 13. (I also have a Cloak of Charisma, so that already has me up to 15.)

Either Int or Wis would be good, and Wis would give me an extra spell a day, I think.

Will have to retool, I think.

[alexmegami]

Durr, that was me...

[safti]

*nods*

Mph. Well, you said you were thinking of switching her to two classes . . . I think I'd go for that, too, given all this.

Sorry, I've been pretty darn useless for all of this. ;)

[kisekileia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they did drop that.

[scapegoat-5.livejournal.com]

<3 I love swashbucklers! ^-^ Easily one of my favourite classes in the game (and consequently, intelligence adds to their strike damage the same way sneak attack does so taking a level of Rogue first is hot if you're a halfling :P)

You will roll better stats than that. I'd be very impressed if you didn't. Those stats are pretty crummy :P

It's pretty much from a power gaming perspective but if you take 2 levels of Rogue, you may as well take the third for that extra 1d6 sneak attack (unless you end up with the same crummy combat stats next time around) That'll give you the ability to at least help out in combat if you're not needed for anything else :P Mind you, this also neuters your clerical abilities so maybe not ^-^ I think one level of cleric would be fine since a second level of rogue just gives you a couple more skill points to play with. If you get a higher intelligence than you had there, you'll have plenty already.

Your call of course but for stat focus, I'd go Wis, Cha, Int, Con/Dex (whichever you'd prefer), Str. As was suggested earlier, Expertise may be a very good feat to look in to ^-^ IIRC, you can't cast while using it though.

[alexmegami]

That is pretty much how I set up my attributes (I boosted the Charisma, but that was more for the turning effects than anything - if it turns out that we're not going to be seeing many undead, I'll shunt it over to Wisdom).

I'll look into Expertise, but I'll probably wind up taking either/both of Skill Focus or something that boosts my casting power. Like I said, I'm going to be in the back of the party for combat ;)