(no subject)

[alexmegami]

Hooray for more Mage spoilers!

I'm starting to consider whether I was wrong and Billy is the Mastigos with Easton is the Moros. (Not that they can't both be one or the other...)

Which just makes Acanthus!Melody and Moros!Easton that much more of an odd couple.

Amusement.

Comments

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

I glanced over the Mage spoilers.

While I am saving judgement for the actual book, my initial reaction is: I don't like it.

I mean, the original Mage was over-burdened with setting and Traditions and stuff too - but this... seems worse somehow. All that stuff about Watchtowers and the Abyss, it's just fancy rewording of the original Triad of Reality. And it strikes me as being even *more* stifling than the original.

Bah.

[alexmegami]

*nod* A lot of people are having the same reaction.

(I have no idea what the original Triad of Reality was, so no comment there.)

I'm curious why/how you think it's more stifling.

[adagioweapon.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm a bigger fan of the new mage than the old. I prefer the concept of modern High Magic as opposed to gritty lucky people, which is what Ascension got bogged down into. Also, I prefer the Umbra being specific places, because then you get less of the Technocratic and Hermetic Star Destroyer battles that happened so much in 2nd ed.

[sasuran.livejournal.com]

Heh, I have no idea what these are. XD But since you know how much I love any RPG explanations from the Night Owl :D would you want to tell me? (If you're that bored at work, anyways. ;) )

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

High Magic is for D'n'D. I like the gritty, street magic ambience. And it wasn't about luck, it was about iron will - about people with relentless desires, relentless ideas.

New M:tA makes them out to be robe-wearing, staff-carrying, Magic Missile-casting wizards in a modern setting. That's my first impression anyway.

If they published Hermetics having Star Destroyers, well that's WW's stupidity. I didn't have any problem with the Umbra just being that, like space is just Space. It's just the Umbra, the space between worlds.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

Instead of doing away with "Blah Blah Tradition" is good at "Blah blah Sphere" altogether, they decided to give each Watchtower domain over two spheres and summarized them neatly as:

Acanthus = crazywildkooky (enchanter)
Mastigos = ohwe'resoevilwedealwithdemons (illusionist)
Moros = i'msogoth (necromancer)
[remaining two (evoker and summoner)]

Hell, I had issues with the original Sphere/Tradition thing. This just makes it worse. It feels like some uber-goth's D20 Modern setting.

[alexmegami]

I don't think that's what it's much like at all. The way I'm reading it is that the five Watchtowers (avatars) are adept at two spheres. Their type doesn't determine what they do with their magic, just what their first Seeking is like.

That's how I'm reading it, anyway...

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

"Acanthus mages are especially adept at performing magic that affects destiny and the fluid progression of time."

Time/Entropy

"Mastigos mages work magic that affects the mind and the space all around us."

Mind/Correspondence

"[Moros] Mages who traverse the Abyss to Stygia perform the magic of death, affecting all forms of inert matter,"

Matter (and possibly Spirit, it wasn't too clear).

In old Mage, one's Essence did not determine one's particular magical strengths - which is what it seems like here to me.

[alexmegami]

Haha, okay, I will post it tomorrow. :D

[alexmegami]

Moros get Death and Matter, Mastigos get Mind and Space, Acanthus get Fate and Time, Obrimos get Forces and Prime and Thyrsus get Life and Spirit.

No, that's true. It still doesn't determine what they do with their magic, just what they're naturally adept at. (The same way an Akashic with Mind and a Hermetic with mind aren't doing the same thing even though they have the same sphere.)

If the problem is that you're naturally adept at something rather than your order/Tradition determining it, I personally like this a lot more. After all, it's not like you're forever locked into only knowing those two Arcanum.

I guess I don't see why choosing a path is any different from choosing a Tradition, other than 'Orphan' isn't an option any more.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

It's not different. Traditions were what annoyed me about old Mage. I think everyone should have been an Orphan, with maybe small cells of traditions like Wicca, Golden Order of the Hermetic Dawn, and possibly Kabbala (as these are fairly mainstream "magical" philosophies/religions). Not every Kabbalist or Wiccan would be a "Mage", but their beliefs influence the Mage.

I guess my point is that WW could have taken the opportunity to do away with that aspect altogether, and instead they just dressed it up differently.

[alexmegami]

Eh... see, to me, now you're talking about paradigm. Which doesn't even really show up, as far as I can tell.

Acanthus don't learn fate and time because they're "fae-like" magicians, they learn them because the Mage feels an affinity for that Watchtower. Again, the paths don't determine how you do your magic, just what base components you get to start with.

You could have a Kabbalist or Wiccan be a Mage. You could also have a cop that has no magical upbringing or influence in his life anywhere that still has the fortitude to make his way through an Awakening in Pandemonium. His spells aren't going to be influenced by anything other than his teachers or what he figures out on his own. These aren't precluded by the paths.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

But why should someone who feels an affinity towards fate and time as magical talents have an affinity towards being Acanthus (or the Acanthus tower, which is specified as being faeArcadiablahblah)?

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

Oh, and to me, Paradigm IS the essence of Mage - it was what Mage was entirely supposed to be about. The fact that it "doesn't even really show up" makes New Mage a completely different creature. It's not Mage, it's someone's D20 Modern Arcana setting.

[alexmegami]

Acanthus is specified as being remembered by Sleepers as Arcadia/the realm of the Fae. And they feel the affinity because of the magic.

If you wanted to run it as 'no one has any affinities' or 'you choose two affinities by yourself', nothing's stopping you. *shrug* I like it the way it's presented, and the system makes way more sense than oWoD Mage.

[alexmegami]

It's nothing like d20 Modern Arcana. Nor is it oWoD Mage - something that I much prefer, since oWoD had quite a few problems for me. It's not supposed to be oWoD Mage, and I don't know why you'd expect it to be.

Paradigm doesn't show up in the paths. I have no idea if it'll come about later - rotes may be linked to paradigm.

I guess what it boils down to is, you still have your oWoD books, and no one's forcing you to upgrade (or downgrade) to nWoD. I also think you're jumping the gun on judgement calls, though - we've seen exactly 8 tidbits out of Mage thus far, most of them history. The book is supposedly going to be around 300+ pages.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

System is nothing, setting is everything.

I don't like the setting.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

Then why didn't they call it something different? Like how Wraith became Orpheus?

Exalted, it almost feels like. Big, fancy, "High Magic" setting.

No one is forcing anyone to to the nWoD. I guess I just don't like World of Darkness setting anymore.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

to *change* to

[alexmegami]

I disagree wholeheartedly. It's one of the major reasons I don't like playing Shadowrun.

So don't play the game.

[alexmegami]

It is called something different. Barely, but just as Vampire: the Masquerade became Vampire: the Requiem, new Mage is Mage: the Awakening rather than Mage: the Ascension.

It's not a huge difference but it is there.

I don't really see why it's more high magic than old-world Mage. The spheres are 90% the same, I'm betting what you can do with them hasn't changed all that much, and the only difference thus far is that paradigm isn't a factor.

Old Mage was only street magic if that's what you did with it. Sons of Ether were mostly pulp fiction mages, as far as I could tell. Verbena and Hermetics weren't really "street mages" either.

I maintain that it's player choices that make a setting gritty or not.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

Well, I won't then! SO THERE!

:P

I'd settle for a decent, well-balanced Generic System and just play my own settings.

[user-lain.livejournal.com]

That's what Patrick called it.

I can't explain it over the Internet. It's like being getting a book like Something From the Dark Side and finding out it's more like the Fionavar Tapestry.

[alexmegami]

FINE! ;P

Yeah. Sadly, I have no idea how well GURPS would work for something like that.

[alexmegami]

Yes, and I disagree with Patrick, too. Just because magic has been made easier mechanically doesn't make it high magic. High magic conjures to mind rituals and wands and power words and magical beasts. I don't see any of that in what's been said so far.

What I do see is a system where I could easily take Gate of Darkness, Circle of Light and turn it into a game.

[sasuran.livejournal.com]

w00t! :D

[alexmegami]

:D The explanation, she is up!